Land Rover Stoppers
The Center Pedal
First off, let me say that I seldom give brake tips. However there has been much discussion regarding the types of brake fluid and such for Land Rovers, so I feel there is a need. What you do with your brakes is your own responsibility. I cannot accept any responsibility for work I do not perform. Please realize the importance of your braking system, and act accordingly. If you feel your braking system is beyond the scope of your abilities, DO NOT work on it. Trial and error is not the way to learn brakes. Consult a certified brake technician or attend a trade school to learn yourself. This page is not a substitute for a manual or experience.
Series Land Rovers came with several systems, and variants within those systems as the brakes were upgraded. The two primary systems were 10 inch and 11 inch brakes. These measurements are the diameters of the brake drums. The 88 inch wheelbase had the 10 inch brakes, the 109 inch wheelbase has the 11 inch brakes. A common and good upgrade on a 88 inch Rover is the switch to 11 inch brakes. The greater surface area gives improved braking.
The 88 inch Rover came fitted with a center valve (CV) master cylinder, the 109 inch came with a compression barrel (CB) master cylinder. The CB type can be identified by the large nut on the end of the cylinder. The master cylinders must be swapped as well if you upgrade the brakes to 11 inch, as the bore and stroke is different. To further complicate matters, Rover also introduced servo assist systems of two types, the Girling and the Clayton Dewandre. The servo assist units are easily identified by the large vaccuum canister behind the master cylinder. Both systems came with a single reservoir, meaning if there was a leak, there was no back-up system other than the hand brake.
The original brake cylinders used natural rubber in the seals. When Series Rovers were new, owners were strongly cautioned to use only Castrol/Girling LMA, a vegetable-based fluid. Any other fluid would deteriorate the seals, resulting in loss of braking. Girling eventually changed to a neoprene seal which is compatible with modern, glycol-based brake fluid. As long as the entire system has the modern neoprene seals, a DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid can be used. Unless you have some old parts fitted or in the kit box, you don't have to use vegetable-based fluids (Castrol/Girling LMA) anymore. I use DOT 4 brake fluid.
Silicone fluid can be used if the entire system has been flushed. I have heard of flushing the system with 95% isopropanol and cleaning the seals with dish washing soap. Silicone does have the advantage of not being hygroscopic. Some folks maintain that due to the non-hygroscopic nature of silicone fluid, the water collects on the steel brake parts, causing rust. The Girling cylinders are aluminum, and as such, will not rust. The pistons are made of steel, however, and will rust.
In the photo you can see my flex hose wrapped with a heavy wire. This wire is a spring I bought at the local hardware store, and stretched out. It prevents the flex hose from rubbing on anything and becoming abraded. Just make sure the interior diameter of the spring is a bit larger than the exterior diameter of the flex hose.I use needle nose vise-grips with the jaws wrapped in duct tape as hose clamps.
I learned that you can rebuild a wheel cylinder without removing it from the backing plate, you just have to be scupulously clean. I had to replace the one in the picture due to a frozen and broken bleeder valve. If your bleeder valve breaks off, you can make do until you can get another cylinder, but you cannot complete the bleeding process. Drilling out the valve and tapping the hole is next to impossible in the home garage. I do NOT recommend that. Replace the cylinder.
It's often said to bleed the "furthest away" first, which is the left rear on left hand drive Rovers. I've found that with a dry system, I usually do the closest first (right front), and work towards the back, so that the air in front is eliminated, permitting greater pressure to the rear. Once there's fluid in the system, then start with the furthest away, working toward the closest. Remember that "closest" is relative to brake pipe length. On a Series Rover, the right front has the shortest brake pipe to the master cylinder.
If you have someone pump the pedal to bleed the old fashioned way, don't let it go all the way to the floor. Doing so causes the master cylinder seal to travel into uncharted territory, and may damage it if corrosion is present there. A block of wood put on the floor underneath the pedal helps prevent to much travel. Make sure you keep the reservoir topped up. Make sure the pedal is held down until you retighten the bleeder valve. Marriages have hit the rocks over this! Give specific instructions, and demonstrate. The specifics are: pump up pressure, hold down, open bleeder, let the bubbles squirt out, close bleeder, release pedal and repeat.
There are vaccuum bleeders on the market. Some swear by them. I have purchased one, and found it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. But like I said, some swear by them, and nobody is swearing at them.
I made my own one man bleeder setup out of a long clear hose and an olive jar. I open the bleeder valve, connect the hose to it, and run the other end through a hole in the jar lid. I put enough fluid in the jar to cover the end of the hose, set the jar where I can see it, and pump away until the bubbles are no more. The fluid in the jar prevents air from being sucked into the system when I release the pedal. I do this at each wheel. Remember that brake fluid makes an excellent paint stripper. Be careful where you set that jar! The hose can be obtained at any hardware store.
DOT3 brake fluid is the "conventional" brake fluid used in most vehicles.
One of the most familiar brands is "Prestone."
DOT3 fluid eats paint!
DOT3 fluid absorbs water very readily. (This is often referred to as being hygroscopic.) As such, once a container of DOT3 has been opened, it should not be stored for periods much longer than a week before use.
Since DOT3 fluid absorbs water, any moisture absorbed by the fluid can encourage corrosion in the brake lines and cylinders.
DOT4 fluid does not absorb water as readily as DOT3 fluid.
DOT4 fluid has a higher boiling point than DOT3 fluid, making it more suitable applications where the brake systems are expected to get hot, such as trailering or mountain use.
DOT4 fluid is generally about 50% more expensive than DOT3 fluid.
Since DOT4 fluid still absorbs some water, any moisture absorbed by the fluid can encourage corrosion in the brake lines.
DOT5 brake fluid is also known as "silicone" brake fluid.
DOT5 is compatible with all rubber formulations. (See more on this under disadvantages, below.)
DOT5 doesn't eat paint.
Reports of DOT5 causing premature failure of rubber brake parts were more common with early DOT5 formulations. This is thought to be due to improper addition of swelling agents and has been fixed in recent formulations.
Since DOT5 does not absorb water, any moisture in the hydraulic system will "puddle" in one place. This can cause localized corrosion in the hydraulics.
Careful bleeding is required to get all of the air out of the system. Small bubbles can form in the fluid that will form large bubbles over time. It may be necessary to do a series of bleeds.
DOT5 is slightly compressible (giving a very slightly soft pedal), and has a lower boiling point than DOT4.
DOT5 is about twice as expensive as DOT4 fluid. It is also difficult to find, generally only available at selected auto parts stores.
DOT5.1 is a relatively new brake fluid that is causing no end of confusion among mechanics. The DOT could avoid a lot of confusion by giving this new fluid a different designation. The 5.1 designation could lead one to believe that it's a modification of silicone-based DOT 5 brake fluid. Calling it 4.1 or 6 might have been more appropriate since it is closer to DOT3 or DOT4 formulations than silicone-based DOT 5 fluid. (In fact, Spectro is marketing a similar new fluid which they are calling Supreme DOT 4, which seems less confusing.)
As far as the basic behavior of 5.1 fluids, they are much like "high performance" DOT4 fluids, rather than traditional DOT5 brake fluids.
DOT5.1 is said to be compatible with all rubber formulations.
DOT5.1 fluids, like DOT3 & DOT4 will eat paint.
DOT 5.1 fluids are difficult to find for sale, typically at very few auto parts stores, mostly limited to "speed shops."
DOT 5.1 will be more expensive than DOT3 or DOT4, and more difficult to find.
If you have a brake system that doesn't leak or show any other signs of failure, but has old seals in it, don't change fluid types. If it isn't broken, don't "fix" it -- you may simply break it instead!
Flushing of the brake system every couple years to remove any absorbed or collected water is probably a good idea to prevent corrosion, regardless of the type of brake fluid used.
DOT3 and other glycol-based fluids are dangerous to use in Land Rovers with natural rubber seals, and thus should not be used unless you are certain there are no natural rubber seals in your vehicle, except as a backwoods "get me home" solution. (If this is used as a "get-me-home" solution, bleed the system as soon as possible, and be prepared to replace all your seals.)
DOT4 fluid, for a slight increase in cost, will give significantly increased resistance to moisture absorption, thus decreasing the likelihood of corrosion compared to DOT3.
DOT4 fluid has a higher boiling point than DOT3, making it preferable for excessive use of the brakes in mountainous areas or trailering. For even greater braking performance, consider going to DOT5.1 or a high-performance version of DOT4 fluid.
DOT5 doesn't absorb water and it doesn't eat paint. One caveat is that because it doesn't absorb water, water that gets in the system will tend to collect at low points. In this scenario, it would actually be promoting corrosion! Ultimately, however, the choice is yours.
For information on Series disc brakes, click here.
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